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Keeping the Democratic Party democratic

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bevanslow
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« Reply #45 on: July 21, 2008, 11:14:02 am »

24 - Not only does he deserve to participate in the debates, but also Americans deserve the right to hear Ralph Nader speak.

-bev


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24hrlib
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« Reply #46 on: July 21, 2008, 11:38:20 am »

24 - Not only does he deserve to participate in the debates, but also Americans deserve the right to hear Ralph Nader speak.

-bev




DITTO!!
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Republican rhetoric does not match the reality of what they have done. --John Edwards
Ksvoboda
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« Reply #47 on: July 21, 2008, 11:41:36 pm »

I'm just putting this in here just because I figured this was as good a place as any to put it....this blogger wrote this about John...interesting.. too little, too late.
http://www.sohh.com/2008/07/hh4prez-blog-ma.html
And yes, Barack doesn't talk about poor people and it isn't because he's playing it safe either.
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westlib
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« Reply #48 on: July 22, 2008, 09:48:56 am »

What's with this "play it safe" cr**. What a way to inspire a nation in crisis - come on voters, let's play it safe! Do the Dems really think this is the way to win?

"play it safe" a.k.a. "say anything to win, but don't mean any of it"
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MiamiForEdwards
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« Reply #49 on: July 24, 2008, 06:28:56 pm »

Yesterday The New York Times released it's piece on the Denver Group which appears online in The Caucus
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/07/23/clinton-supporters-try-one-more-tack/

Today's print edition contains a a slightly shorter version at page A20 (available via the link below--click on image for larger version). http://thedenvergroup.blogspot.com/2008/07/denver-group-makes-new-york-times.html

One troubling snippet from the article is this (my emphasis):

Calls to the Democratic National Committee were referred to the Obama campaign, and Bill Burton, a spokesman said: “We’re working out the details of the convention, and we’ll let people know when the specifics are worked out.”

Looks like this equation has always been in place, DNC=Obama campaign.  I remember calling the DNC when John was still in the race (about the third week of January) to complain that Obama was running campaign ads on TV in Florida, in violation of the agreement not to campaign here.  I was told by the DNC to "call the Obama campaign." 

All I know is if the Dems want to commit political suicide this November, all they have to do is continue the strong arm tactics for "unity" and block Sen. Clinton's name from being entered into nomination.  Roll call vote is only symbolic and clearly not enough considering that neither candidate reached the delegate threshold based on pledged delegates (as has been the case in the past).  The SuperDelegates tipped the scales in Obama's favor and guess what, they do not vote until the convention.  So how about following the democratic process? 

All democrats should read this http://heidilipotpourri.blogspot.com/2008/07/difference-between-supporting-person.html

Uppity Woman has some useful information:

Jimmy Carter had 2,129 delegates.
Ted Kennedy had 1,150 delegates.
Ted Kennedy’s name was placed in nomination at the Democratic Convention

Walter F. Mondale had 2191 delegates.
Gary W Hart had 1200 delegates.
Jesse L Jackson had  485 delegates.
Jesse Jackson’s name was placed in nomination at the Democratic convention.

Michael Dukakis had 2687 delegates.
Jesse Jackson had 1218 delegates.
Jesse Jackson’s name was placed in nomination at the Democratic convention.

http://uppitywoman08.wordpress.com/2008/07/23/the-denver-groups-latest-ad/

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Ksvoboda
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« Reply #50 on: July 25, 2008, 10:48:04 am »

Oh Miami, why can't you just "get over it" and quit whining? lol  Some how when it's a woman, this becomes whining.  I wonder what they called it when these guys got their votes, oh the "process".  For some reason the Dems just don't want to follow the process.  This morning my sister had me reading this article that just pissed me off once again.  http://www.thecityedition.com/Pages/Archive/Summer08/BrazileRoveConnect.html  I have such bad feelings for the Dems that caused the problems with this primary that I can't think straight and I will never get over a Democrat hijacking my vote here in Michigan.  I thought only Republicans did that kind of thing.  This election really makes me see how the Democrats and Republicans are really two sides of the same coin.
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MiamiForEdwards
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« Reply #51 on: July 25, 2008, 04:33:25 pm »

Thanks K for the link to the article.  I got 3/4 through it before I had to stop.  This is about the point where I had to tune out for the sake of my sanity:

In a July 22nd post on Daryl Cagle's website, she groaned, "How many ways do these Hillary delegates, voters and supporters need to hear it before they get it? Sen. Barack Obama is the party's nominee. He won. He will get to choose his running mate. Obama sets the agenda for the convention, and, while I understand their passion in wanting Hillary to be on the ticket and to have a prominent role at the convention, it's not her decision... As much as we all would have loved to see a woman in the Oval Office, it wasn't Hillary's time. Period."

Just a couple of points:  1)  Barack Obama did not "win" as there is no decisive vote until Convention and Obama did not reach the necessary delegate threshold based on pledged delegates alone.  Since the superdelegates do not cast binding votes until convention, there is only a presumptive nominee in a very tight race decided by superdelegates (who did I mention can change their minds and only cast binding votes at the Convention?).

Since the Dem leadership like sports metaphors so much, the analogy would be like calling this year's SuperBowl XLII for the favored NE Patriots in the middle of the fourth quarter.  Most everyone knows the NY Giants pulled one of the greatest upsets in the final minutes of the fourth quarter defeating the near perfect season Patriots (they had not lost one game the entire season) to win the Superbowl.  All bets were on the Patriots who were on track to become only the second team in NFL history to hold a perfect season (the 1972 Miami Dolphins still hold that title thank you very much).   

"After a scoreless third quarter, the Giants reached the end zone early in the fourth to make it 10-7. A 6-yard touchdown pass from Brady to wide receiver Randy Moss with 2:42 left put the Patriots back on top -- and the pressure on Manning.

With less than a minute remaining, Manning wriggled free of what looked like a certain sack to unleash a 32-yard strike to David Tyree, putting the Giants on New England's 24-yard line. Four plays later, Manning connected with wide receiver Plaxico Burress on a 13-yard pass to reclaim the lead and win the game." http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/02/04/super.bowl/index.html

Let me recap, the NY Giants won the Superbowl within the last minute of the game.  The "game" for the Democrats is not over until Convention and the floor vote. 

Which brings me to my point 2) Hillary Clinton's role at the Convention is very much up to her (maybe Donna needs to re-read those DNC rules on the Convention).  Donna says, "I understand their passion in wanting Hillary to be on the ticket and to have a prominent role at the convention, it's not her decision."  Okay let's break it down.  Passion?  How about 18 million votes that is what merits Hillary Clinton's name on the ballot and into nomination at the Convention.  VOTES not Passion.  Let us not play bait and switch.  Hillary Clinton's name entered into nomination would be ordinary if you go by the history of recent Democratic conventions.  One of the ways a candidate's name can be placed into nomination is for 300 of the candidate's delegates to petition for it, then it is up to the candidate to accept or not.  So, I would say it is very much up to Hillary Clinton.  Her voters (and those who did not vote for her but are committed to a transparent process) are only demanding what is fair. 

If the party wants to completely self destruct just go ahead and stand in the way of the process.  There are many voters who will not stand for this violation of basic democratic party principles.  Country over party.  Get it Donna et al?  Keep the democratic in the Democratic party or we are out for good.  Period.
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MiamiForEdwards
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« Reply #52 on: July 25, 2008, 05:46:04 pm »

Heidi Li Feldman of The Denver Group has an awesome post on the DNC Convention rules ("Call to the Convention" published by Democratic National Party published February 2007).  Must read!

http://heidilipotpourri.blogspot.com/2008/07/dnc-convention-rules-essential.html

--snippet--
The Call to the Convention serves as a blueprint or governance document specifying how the the convention will be convened and what will happen there.
...
Section VI defines the term "Presidential Candidate" for purposes of the Convention. Here is that provision in its entirety:

The term “presidential candidate” herein shall mean any person who, as determined by the National Chairperson of the Democratic National Committee, has accrued delegates in the nominating process and plans to seek the nomination, has established substantial support for his or her nomination as the Democratic candidate for the Office of the President of the United States, is a bona fide Democrat whose record of public service, accomplishment, public writings and/or public statements affirmatively demonstrates that he or she is faithful to the interests, welfare and success of the Democratic Party of the United States, and will participate in the Convention in good faith.

Note: the "plans to seek the nomination" does not state a deadline for when a candidate must announce that he or she so plans. So any candidate who meets the other guidelines in Section VI and announces prior to the convention's start that she or he is seeking the nomination qualifies as a "Presidential candidate" for purposes of the Call.  As of today, July 25, Senator Obama is the only person who is in this position. As of August 1 or August 15 or August 20 (I'm just naming random dates before the start of the convention), others may have thrown their hat in the ring. John Edwards, for example, could do so.
...
Finally, subsection 7 defines what happens after the nomination speeches are given:

7. Roll Call for Presidential Candidate:
a. After nominations for presidential candidates have closed, the Convention shall proceed to a roll call vote by states on the selection of the presidential candidate. The roll call voting shall follow the alphabetical order of the states with the District of Columbia and Puerto Rico and the territories treated as states for the purpose of the alphabetical roll call.
b. A majority vote of the Convention’s delegates shall be required to nominate the presidential candidate.
c. Delegates may vote for the candidate of their choice whether or not the name of such candidate was placed in nomination. Any vote cast other than a vote for a presidential candidate meeting the requirements of Article VI of this Call and Rule 12.K. of the 2008 Delegate Selection Rules shall be considered a vote for “Present.”
d. Balloting will continue until a nominee is selected. The nominee shall become the candidate of the Democratic Party of the United States for the Office of President upon the conclusion of his or her acceptance speech.

Note: it is because of subsection 7(c) that the difference between being a nominee and simply being on the ballot makes a difference. If a candidate is not a nominee at the time of the roll call, votes for that candidate simply count as "present".
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Ksvoboda
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« Reply #53 on: July 25, 2008, 06:26:54 pm »

Here's hoping that Obama's big world tour comes back in a big way so that the polls dive.  If the polls continue the downward spiral, maybe the Superdelegates will awaken form their stupor and realize that this election is important enough to send a woman to do the job. lol
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MiamiForEdwards
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« Reply #54 on: August 01, 2008, 03:47:04 pm »

Latest Denver Group ad ran in the CQ Daily this Wednesday.  Click the image in the link below for a larger view. 

http://thedenvergroup.blogspot.com/2008/07/denver-group-publishes-new-ad-in-cq.html
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destiny
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« Reply #55 on: August 03, 2008, 05:30:21 pm »

I am getting so sick of hearing, accept it, its inevitable!  Angry Doesn't mean I have to help!
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